The Fires | Juice Media Podcast 9: feat. Prof Michael E Mann

The Fires | Juice Media Podcast 9: feat. Prof Michael E Mann

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Michael Mann: Tthe rest of the world is watching – this isn’t just about Australia – this is an experiment that is playing out. And the
rest of the world… it’s a petri dish, and the rest of the world is watching it
right now to see not only how bad does it get but
what do we do about it Hey everyone Giordano here from the
juice media welcome back to the juice media podcast a companion to the Honest
Ggovernment Ads series. This is Episode 9 which is the second half of our podcast
companion for our Honest Government Ad about the fires. Just before we get into
it a reminder that we’re trying something new out here instead of just
uploading our podcasts to our hosts which we’ll carry on doing we’re also
going to be sticking it up here on YouTube the reason being that the
podcast has become a really rich companion to the honest government ads
and I think you would all get a lot out of them so rather than try and make you
all go to another platform we thought we’d make it easier for everyone to see
it and share it in the first half of this podcast Episode 8 I chatted with
Simon Holmes a Court about some of the technological solutions that are
available to us right now to avoid epic climate change fail. If you haven’t
already seen it check it out it’s getting some really good feedback. But
now in the second half we’re going to geek out about the science itself – and
yes I know, on the internet everyone’s a fucking expert about climate change: “why
haven’t you looked at geo-engineering?” Chemtrails! Greta’s Agenda 21!
The thing that’s usually lacking in all these conversations is, yep you guessed it, a
climate scientist. So today I’m really proud to have as our guest on this
podcast not just any scientist but one of the
world’s most renowned climate scientists Michael E Mann for those of you that don’t know him, Mann
is an American climatologist and geophysicist the currently director of
the Earth System Science Center at the Pennsylvania State University. He’s
basically a pioneer in the field of climate change thanks to his statistical
work which was able to detect the signal of climate change isolating it from
background noise data these techniques were used by man and his colleagues to
produce a reconstruction of climate temperatures over the past thousand
years which gave birth to a graph many of you will be familiar with – the hockey
stick graph. A lead author of the IPCC’s 3rd Scientific Assessment Report, Mann’s
work has been key to establishing the reality of anthropogenic climate change.
It’s important to note that because of his central role in all of this, Michael
Mann has become a sort of lightning rod and troll magnet, frequently the target
of attack from climate deniers who have mounted a campaign to try and discredit
him in order to cast doubt over the science. No doubt in the comments section
there will be people posting links supposedly discrediting him or his work.
So I just want to preempt that by saying I’m gonna put a couple of links in the
video description which set the record straight on these claims. But most
importantly, it is important to remember that more than two dozen reconstructions
using various statistical methods have supported the broad consensus shown in
the original hockey stick graph which Mann co-authored. Because of his
experience both as a pioneer climate scientist and also as a lightning rod
for a sort of pseudo scientific climate change denying fuckwits,
Michael Mann has emerged as one of the most important and effective
communicators on climate change. He’s also got a pretty wicked sense of humor
so when he saw our honest government ad about the fires he loved it and posted
it on his Twitter page. A couple of days later I had the opportunity to meet
Michael in person and after chatting about all sorts of things over several
hours it occurred to me to invite him on to the podcast. I was stoked that a
couple of days later when I followed up with him he’d neither forgotten nor
changed his mind. So, welcome to the Juice Media podcast, and to Australia, Professor
Michael Mann. Thank you good to be with you. You’ve come to the frontline of
climate change what have you learned so far on your trip here we were also the
capital of shit-fuckery as you’ll find out But, what have you found?
Well unfortunately I have found that to be the case you know here as you allude
to Australia is very clearly on the front lines of dealing with the impacts
of climate change I arrived in mid-december when we were
still experiencing that unprecedented drought and heat and the bush fires were
spreading literally around the continent so Australia again quite literally is on
the front lines of dealing with the impacts of climate change but as you
allude to it’s also on the front lines of dealing with climate change denial
and delay and the current government the Morison government has pretty much done
everything it can to block any meaningful efforts to actually do
something about climate change now you use the word unprecedented to refer to
the Australian fires of summer but you’re wrong about that professor man
I’m sure you’re aware a number of self-appointed experts have been saying
that actually fires are just part of the Australian experience and they point out
that there have been bigger fires in the past such as in 1974 I can almost hear
the open-minded Jim Mullins and deniers in our comments yelling the fires
weren’t caused by climate change the juice media is a hoax so I thought this
would be a great opportunity for them to hear from an actual climate scientist
why they’re full of shit and why these fires are indeed unprecedented sure and
don’t you know that they were all started by arsonists a hundred and fifty
seven arsonists who were busy no it’s it’s it’s ridiculous and of course the
Murdoch media was promoting this false claim that they were started by arson it
was actually dry lightning strikes natural you know causes that start these
fires and it doesn’t actually matter what starts them when you have the
tinderbox like conditions that we had here in Australia with unprecedented
heat and unprecedented drought and yes we know that the droughts and the heat
have no precedent as far back as reliable records go and it’s not rocket
science right you take unprecedented heat you can bind it with unprecedented
drought you’re going to have unprecedented amount of fuel for these
fires again tinderbox like conditions so if you manage to start a fire if you
want it doesn’t matter how it started the issue is how quickly it spreads how
intense it becomes that’s a function of how warm it is how dry it is
how much fuel has built up and that’s really what the problem was we know that
there is no precedent for both the combination of intensity widespread Ness
and the and how quickly these fires spread when you talk to firefighters to
a person you hear the same thing that they’ve never seen fires that spread
this quickly that becomes so intense so quickly that that create their own
weather to the extent that these fires have they’re qualitatively different
from the fires that we’ve seen before and what’s changed what’s changed is
that we’re warming up the planet we’re warming up the continent we’re drying it
out there are other factors that come into it people may have heard of the
Indian Ocean dipole which is a fancy term for just how sea surface
temperatures oscillate in the Indian Ocean and that can have an impact on
Australian summer climate and in in this very strong positive phase as we call it
of the Indian Ocean dipole contributed to the extreme dry conditions but look
those natural factors have acted over millennia what’s different is the
overall heating and the drawing that that’s creating and so you take the
natural factors the natural oscillations you put it on top of this ever rising
ramp of hotter and drier conditions and you’re going to get unprecedented
wildfires and by the way there is no evidence that we have seen such
widespread bush fires in australia before and what the critics will do for
example is they’ll try to combine grass fires in the north with these massive
bush fires that we’re seeing here in New South Wales and Victoria and those are
completely different kinds of fires these grasslands 74 fire which
is over right that’s that good example that a lot of people have been raising
yeah exactly you know those are a completely
different type of fire these grass fires you know happen naturally and they can
happen over very large expanses of grassland and shrubs but the forest
burning that we’ve seen and this unprecedented destruction of our forests
and the wildlife that they’re home to that is unprecedented we’ve seen regions
experiencing bush fires that have never experienced bush fires before regions
that are generally some of the moister tropical regions of Australia where you
know they’re they don’t at least in the past haven’t seen bush fires and they’re
seeing them now so you know make no mistake about it this is unprecedented
and we know why it’s happening and I hate to say we told you so but look we
told you so Roz Garneau a well-known economist and an expert on sort of
climate change impacts was the lead author of a report that came out in 2008
which has gotten a lot of attention because there’s literally a line in that
report that says look if we continue on the course that we’re on the fire season
will get longer the fires will get more intense and by the way we expect that
this will become obvious by 2020 and here we are and you know what it’s
become obvious well they didn’t specify the month so it
wasn’t exactly or the day leave a little wiggle room in there yeah
so clearly another hoax you told me you’re literally here on sabbatical to
study the effects of climate change and then like as if on cue the whole fucking
country bursts into fire are you integrating this into your work are you
updating your your your understanding of the effect of your honor change or is
this just exactly what everyone expected in the climate science community no it’s
it’s what we predicted but not what we expected which is you know to say that
you need segoe we said this sort of stuff will happen if we don’t act and of
course we’ve failed to act in a meaningful way and we’re seeing it play
out now this
experience can’t help but impact and influence me in my speaking and my
writing I’ve written quite about this you know what’s unfolding in Australia
not just on the the impacts of climate change but on the denialism from the
government and the role of the Murdoch media that is polluted not just our
atmosphere by you know denying climate change but it’s polluted the public
discourse over climate in this country and elsewhere around the world so I came
here to do science but I arrived at a unique time and instead find myself
doing quite a bit of outreach trying to you know it’s a terrible tragedy we’re
seeing play out and yet it does provide a teaching opportunity to explain to
people the real cost of inaction on climate and I’m in the middle of writing
my next book which is about the climate Wars it’s how to win the new climate war
and it’s about how we’ve sort of shifted away largely from outright denial that
it’s happening to sort of softer forms of denial efforts to delay deflect doom
ISM ie well it’s too late to do anything about it so why even bother try is is
another Avenue in sort of this multi-pronged effort to block action on
climate and here in Australia you know again we’re on the front lines of all of
that and so it’s influencing my writing of the book that I’m writing is a very
different book from the book I would have written had I not been spending
this time in Australia and of course again I’m spending much of my time
talking to journalists doing media because there’s a unique opportunity
that the rest of the world is watching this isn’t just about Australia this is
an experiment that is playing out in the rest of the world it’s a petri dish and
the rest of the world is watching it right now
to see not only how bad does it get but what do we do about it will we see the
sort of shift the sort of tipping point in consciousness in this country that
will you know lead us away from denial and delay towards action will we see
that happen and if so you know and I think we are
seeing a shift in sort of the nature of the conversation that’s the extent that
we do it maybe will signal to the rest of the world that we are indeed ready to
move on but you know in we’re not without some major obstacles one of
which is the prevailing politics and here in Australia this is a vivid
example of that I mean and it’s becoming very clear that that really is the only
remaining obstacle is the politics in part one of this podcast I spoke with
Simon Holmes accordant the technology is there there’s so many origins are ready
to go now I wanted to ask you a couple of geeky questions about climate
scientists because I find that I find this really frustrating I don’t know
about you but anytime there is like a conference or an interview or anything
like that with the climate scientists eat inevitably gets bogged down in
dealing with the narrative of climate denial and that’s a very ordered but
what ends up happening is that sets the frame of the discussion and Overton
Window gets stuck in that you know how do we debate this issue rather than
getting on to the science of what we actually need to do to get out of this
shit show so I want to ask you in a second about actually the science but
just so do we get it out of the way because we do as any online show we do
have a lot of people in our audience that are like our climate scientists are
all bored out or there’s like a millionaire or the climates always
changing how do you what do you make of it as the climate scientist I mean is it
exasperated at there is a sort of anti intellectual movement or do you feel
like some of these arguments or criticisms are valid and their it and
it’s important to address them what’s your take on it yeah these climate
scientists are just an awful bunch oh wait a second I’m one of them all right
no you know this is sort of part of part and parcel to the culture of science
scientists are intrinsically very conservative very reticent to venture
outside of sort of the technical discussions the the the science itself
and in the environment we live in today where if you sort of connect the dots
for the public you’ll be vilified on the pages of the
Australian you’ll be attacked by the Murdoch media that’s understandably led
scientists to to some extent to withdraw from the
public conversation that’s that’s the intent of these attacks to lead the the
scientific community to withdraw from the conversation that then leaves behind
a vacuum that is readily filled by the forces of denial and delay the Murdock
media etc so part of you know what I see my role as being today you know I didn’t
have that luxury when we published a hockey stick curve two decades ago and
it became this sort of icon and the climate change debate and I found myself
under attack it was sort of sink or swim I had to figure out how to defend myself
and to defend my work against these you know these bad faith assaults by
conservative media and politicians looking to discredit the case for
concern about climate change and ultimately you know I learned how to
sort of be more effective in the public sphere and that’s led me now you know
ultimately to embrace this role that I have that I’m playing now of trying to
explain the science and its implications to the public and policymakers but part
of what I hope I’m doing is helping set an example for other scientists
particularly younger scientists that you know that this is important this is
something we need to do there’s a and I’m not saying every scientist should be
out there talking to the media I know some who should never talk to the media
I know some scientists who are best left alone in the laboratory probably not
even interacting with other human beings if possible we all know those scientists
but there’s going to be some subset of scientists as there is with any group
however proclivity and an interest in in in communicating the science simply and
its implications and we have to create space and we have to provide incentives
for scientists to do that and I feel like part of my role today is to help do
that not just to communicate myself but to create an atmosphere especially here
in Australia where I think the scientists feel very intimidated they’re
afraid of being attacked by the Murdoch media if they you know again talk about
the the crisis no tech talk about that the
in stark terms and you know they derive their funding from the government and do
we have a conservative government that hasn’t been very supportive of a science
so for various means I think the scientists in Australia
particularly been very reticent and and I think it’s trying to change it I hope
maybe I’m playing some sort of role in changing the culture here so scientists
feel more comfortable in doing that you know as I said in the in a tweet
response you saw our video about the fires and I was really stoked when you
repeated it and I got some messages from people going holy shit Michel manners
and you know I responded saying that ankle stuff it was my honor to do so
thank you but you know I responded to you saying thanks for the work that you
doing here and you know I’m I think you’ll leave us stronger than than when
you found us because of the the contribution that you’ve made to the
public discourse here you’re gonna you’re going to inspiring embolden a lot
of people scientists scientists but you know I think also general public and I
remember when I’ve been making videos now for about 10 years the honest
government had series is a little bit young younger we started about three
years ago but I used to dread talking about climate I mean I did it anyway but
I used to talk about climate change and not many comedians and satirist s– it
wasn’t a topic that a lot of people engaged in because it was just a magnet
for hate and trolleys and big hits once you get used to it like you just go well
this is part of the reality of dealing with the subject the hate that comes
back you actually kind of just you kind of normalize it a little bit it’s not a
nice thing but you kind of develop a bit of a thicker skin and now I relish this
is my favorite topic of conversation the videos that we make partly because it’s
it’s a challenge like we’re devising I think original ways of dealing with the
topic I’m talking about climate change within a satirical frame which is not
something that a lot of comedians do and partly of course because it’s such an
important topic and so for better or worse the haters just something the fact
that we have to deal with this is kind of like part and parcel it’s a thank you
for you know for setting that example and sticking your neck out Buster the
paddle my friend we’re very happy to have you who are on our side here as I said I wanna kind of lecture move
the discussion window and cuz I always go we should stop wasting our time
debating conspiracy theories that are never-ending we don’t have time for that
anymore we wrote climate deniers of that decades to prove their case we’ve
listened to them we’ve gone through it all fuck it now
so I want to ask you a couple of practical questions for example how does
one become the climate scientist there are people listening who are interested
in this field and particularly young people there might be some students
students are really engaged at the moment especially here in Australia with
the student with the climate strike movement and many of you wondering how
do they become the climate scientist what what can they study what are the
pathways to follow because your qualifications might be different to
those of another climate scientist and yet you share that that label how does
one actually get into this field or at this point well you know I can’t go into
the details for obvious reasons but it does involve a ceremony with whips and
farm animals and do it yes away from the conspiracies and I you know you know
it’s scientists come into this field from a lot of different directions
because it’s intrinsically interdisciplinary which is to say you
know there’s physics there’s chemistry there’s biology there is hydrology there
is you know ultimately when you look at the larger problem there’s economics
there’s you know philosophy I mean every discipline that exists in academia
including history which you know is your discipline you come from has a role in
informing the larger climate issue so scientists actually come into this field
from a variety of directions I was sort of part of a somewhat of a mass exodus
from the theoretical physics community in the late 1980s when funding was sort
of drying up in that field and the you know sort of people like you know myself
you know students who had backgrounds and in physics and math were
sort of looking for new areas where we could bring those tools to bear on
working on sort of some of the big wide-open problems and climate science
really was it for me at that time really the early 90s when I switched out of
physics into geology and geophysics this was sort of the you know a Renaissance
where climate modeling was becoming far more sophisticated there were more
powerful supercomputers in which you could run the models we had all these
data coming in that we’re building a clearer and clearer picture of a planet
that’s warming up in a climate that’s changing and all that was really
converging so it was an exciting time and so you had people like me coming in
from physics and math but he had other people who came in from chemistry and
biology and you know and focused on sort of the chemical and biological elements
of the problem the global carbon cycle for example I mean that’s really biology
the greenhouse effect well that’s chemistry and atmospheric constituents
and the impact they have on the climate that’s chemistry so you really it’s a
mixing bowl and that was one of the exciting things about climate science
that it was this mixing bowl and then you had people coming into it from
different fields and and you learned quite a bit you learned quite a bit not
just you know about your own sort of narrow area of research but by
interacting with scientists coming in from a broad variety of disciplines you
became a more interdisciplinary you became broader in your understanding of
science as a climate scientist simply because of the culture that existed at
that time and so it was an exciting time to be part of that and it was an
interesting time in that it was really during that time interval from the if
you like the the late 1980s to the mid 1990s where the scientific community
really did reach a very robust consensus that climate change is real and human
caused and yet you’re absolutely right decades later we’re still forced to
entertain in some circles debates about the science when the essentials were set
decades ago you mentioned that you know I come from the field of history but
hearing you speak the other day about your research you know with the hockey
stick graph you’re a historian too I mean you’re one of the most ancient
historians in the sense that you have documented that the famous hockey graph
which here I’m gonna explain it to you but can you explain a little bit what
your your your key finding was and how far back you managed to plot
temperatures and also potentially how far we’ve come since that milestone
report that you did with the IPCC and what 1998 or so sure and let me first
say that you know I I did recently sort of had my birthday here in Australia and
I moved from the early 50s and now I’m sort of in the mid 50s but I think
ancient is a little unfair you know I mean Noah but my daughter does call me
agent with good reason so you know the history of the this particular area of
the science is now two decades old we published the original hockey stick
curve in 1998 in the journal Nature and then extended it back to the past
thousand years a year later in the ninety nine publication that in that
sort of the iconic hockey stick curve that you often see with the sort of slow
cooling from the relative warmth of medieval times into the depths of the
Little Ice Age and then the abrupt spike of the past century and a half that is
without precedent as the blade if you like of the hockey stick and in it you
know be speaks a simple truth that you know that we are engaged in this
unprecedented experiment with the planet and so it did become a lightning rod to
mix metaphors in the climate change debate I became an object of attack
people trying to discredit me to discredit the case for concern about
climate change and that was really ultimately what thrust me right into the
center of the fractious public debate about climate change and I thank my
critics for that otherwise I wouldn’t be in the position I am now yeah now to
sort of be part of this very important conversation so but you know decades
later they’re now dozens of groups that have gone bad
I can use far more extensive data more and more sophisticated methods there’s a
veritable hockey league if you will or a hockey team which is to say there are
many curves of this sort that have now been done and not only do they all come
to the same conclusion about the anomalous nature of the recent warming
some now expend a extended back and literally tens of thousands of years and
so we know now based on more widespread and far-reaching data that the warming
we’re seeing right now is unprecedented in tens of thousands of years
potentially hundreds of thousands of years this is the great thing I mean
what you do and so many other scientists who are good at communicating you’re
really good at speaking to the lay community mere mortals like myself but
for a second can you just give us a glimpse into like if you were speaking
with other climate scientist colleagues at your own kind of level or
understanding of the field could you give us a glimpse into where we are at
now in terms of climate change using the jargon that you need to use in order to
make these points just a picture of a sense of how you normally communicate
absolutely yes it’s a completely different language don’t worry about us
for a minute the basics you know so we talk a lot these days about what’s known
as the climate sensitivity there’s a lot of discussion about this in the
professional literature the equilibrium climate sensitivity or ECS it’s a
measure of the warming effect of greenhouse gases and it’s defined in
this way if you double the concentration of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere
which we’re on are we are on our way to doing pre-industrial levels we’re about
280 parts per million co2 in the atmosphere so they’ll be doubled if we
get to 560 parts per million co2 in the atmosphere and we could reach that
easily later this century in a matter of decades in fact if we sort of continue
with business as usual burning of fossil fuels if we don’t really you know
pass policies to curtail the burning of fossil fuels so the equilibrium climate
sensitivity is how much warming does that result in if you double the
concentration of co2 in the atmosphere and it is a function not just of the
direct greenhouse effect warming effect of co2 carbon dioxide which is a
greenhouse gas but it takes into account all of what we call the feedbacks there
positive feedbacks and that sounds like a good thing that’s a bad thing positive
feedback is an amplifying factor so you warm up the surface of the oceans you
evaporate more moisture into the atmosphere so you’ve got more water
vapor in the atmosphere and water vapor itself is a very potent greenhouse gas
so that adds further to the warming you melt away snow and ice that means that
the surface underneath is now exposed to the Sun and it absorbs more of the
heating by the Sun another positive feedback it’s the reason for what we
call polar amplification that the polar regions the the Antarctic Peninsula for
example and the Arctic are both warming up faster than the rest of the planet in
part it’s because of this positive feedback and so these amplifying factors
lead to more warming than you would get if it was just the warming from the
carbon dioxide increases lone turns out that warming alone would only give you
about one degree Celsius if you double co2 concentrations but the water vapor
feedback adds about two and a half degrees the ice albedo feedback adds
another half a degree and you pretty soon you’re coming up with a number
potentially as high as four degrees Celsius for that equilibrium climate
sensitivity now there’s a fairer about a amount of uncertainty because there are
also some potential negative feedbacks these would be stabilizing factors for
example if warming of the surface of the earth leads to more low clouds low
clouds sort of behave the same way ice on the surface of the earth does the sun
from above sees this white reflective surface which reflects sunlight back to
space so these low clouds can be cooling effect and so if a warmer planet
has more low clouds like marine strata cumulus clouds the low stratus clouds
you see off the coast sometimes here in Australia and other coastal regions if
global warming were to lead to more of those then that could actually be a
mitigating factor a stabilizing factor so you have to add in all of the
positive feedbacks and the negative feedbacks as well now we used to think
again I’ve alluded to that that clouds might be a negative feedback but it
turns out they can also be a positive feedback because high wispy clouds like
cirrus clouds actually absorb some of the heat that’s trying to escape from
the surface of the planet out to space they act the same way a greenhouse gas
does and they warm the planet so you need to know not just will there be more
clouds or less clouds but what kinds of clouds will they be will they be low
clouds will there be high clouds and so there’s a fair amount of uncertainty
because no climate model today is going to resolve an individual cloud it’s just
too small to account for in a model that’s trying to describe the global
oceans the global atmosphere the ice sheets and everything else so you have
to make simplifications you have to use statistical representations that we call
parameterizations and so climate models typically use these parameterizations to
represent small-scale features that aren’t explicitly resolved by the grid
models themselves like clouds now it turns out there’s enough uncertainty in
those representations that different modeling groups come to different
conclusions they get different answers and so there’s a pretty large spread it
turns out in the climate sensitivity that comes out of the various models
some climate models in particular because they have clouds behaving as a
strong negative feedback have a climate sensitivity below three degrees Celsius
some an increasing number of models actually have climate sensitivities
closer to five or even greater than five degrees for a long time we used to say
that our best estimate from all of the collective evidence is a climate
sensitivity about three degrees Celsius you double co2 concentrations you wait
for the climate to catch up eventually warm three degrees Celsius as
a response now increasingly we can’t rule out four maybe even five it’s a
classic example of yes there’s uncertainty the critics like to talk
about the scientific uncertainty as a reason for inaction but if anything it’s
the opposite because the uncertainty is cutting against us it’s not our friend
as we learn more as we better represent some of these processes and climate
models we’re actually moving in direction of the effect potentially
being greater than we thought the impacts coming sooner and nowhere else
is that more obvious than here in Australia where dangerous climate change
has by some measure already arrived it isn’t a degree and a half Celsius it
isn’t two degrees Celsius we often hear people talk about these thresholds where
we reach dangerous climate change here in Australia were there the impacts are
now dangerous and now we can understand why scientists
put that in terms that everyone can understand because they write sense of
the complexity but I love that I I yearn for more of that like whenever this
climate scientists on a conference panel or or at a rally we never get to hear
about the actual science and I think that’s I love our well today and I think
our listeners will too well thank you so much you you’ve just provided a perfect
segue for me to sell my free online course climate change the science and
global impact it’s with EDX and the SDG Academy which is part of the sustainable
United Nations sustainable sustainability program so I have a free
course that I designed for people want to learn more about the science and the
impacts and all the other sort of aspects of the problem and so sign up
for at Google it’s at EDX and we’ve had more than 10,000 people now take the
course in fact I think it’s up to 12,500 now and it’s free if you want a
certificate of completion when you complete the course it does actually
cost 50 bucks but the course itself is free and plan can geek out as much as
you want from the science that’s fantastic sorry what’s the address so
we’ll put this in the show notes so that class can actually click the link and go
directly there and the URL is those WWE DX org slash course slash climate –
change – the – science – and – global – impact I know we should see bit bit ly
to shorten that thing or just Google a freaking thing you’ll find it I wanted
to ask you about the US you know we didn’t an honest government add on the
fires here in Australia but at some point we’ve had so many requests to do a
an honest government at about the u.s. climate policy right you’ve seen our
video what would we need to change in order to make this apply to the US
yeah you know not a whole lot because it’s it pretty much the same story and
so it’s the same sort of shite f-word curry I’m not gonna say it myself I’ll
get in trouble with my family for cursing so shit every yes is very
similar you know when it comes to the politics of this issue right now in the
United States and you know we have an election fortunately that comes up
sooner so we can hopefully shift directions
you know elect a president of Congress who will actually recognize that we have
a problem and do something about it but you know I think that in terms of the
environment that exists right now it’s remarkably similar so if you replace
that ad with somebody with a Brooklyn accent or a Texas accent or
what-have-you I think it would work remarkably well
that the basic message is as valid in the States as it is here in Australia
I’m gonna ask you one final question before I let you go and again thanks so
much for joining us on the podcast sure I want to end on a big picture no it’s
because I feel like on a subject like this it’s really important to remember
the bigger picture I assume you’re familiar with the great filter theory in
the context of Fermi’s paradox I am indeed yes so just for the benefit
of our audience for anyone who is not aware of the great filter and I really
encourage you to google it go check it out there is some amazing stuff written
about this the great filter is one of the possible explanations for Fermi’s
paradox which says since we know the universe should be teeming with life
then why haven’t we encountered any and the great filter hypothesis suggests
that there is something we don’t know what but something that prevents
civilizations from surviving past a certain level of technological
development which means they end up destroying themselves before they ever
have the chance to communicate with any other intelligent civilization such as
ourselves so given where we find ourselves do you think climate change is
the great filter have you thought of climate change in those terms
I have indeed in climate change and environmental degradation in general
because of course climate change is just one axis in this multi-dimensional space
which is environmental sustainability and we are of course challenging the
ability of this planet to you know meet our basic resource needs right now
there’s no question about it now will that you know lead to our
ultimate demise or even extinction you know who knows I can’t I don’t have a
crystal ball that I can look into and tell you what will happen in the future
I do know that you know some of the recent elections and in particular the
election of Donald Trump I even tweeted at the time that now we know the
solution to Fermi’s paradox you know Carl Sagan and others long speculated as
to you know why we haven’t heard from intelligent civilizations which is you
know the Fermi paradox if they’re if the universe is teeming with life as it
ought to be you know if you do the calculations using theirs though it’s no
it’s the Drake Equation you can think of this as a product of terms how many you
know planetary systems are there in the universe you know how many are likely to
have an earth-like planet etc etc and you can sort of think about all these
things and come up with an estimate of you know what’s the likelihood that you
know there would be intelligent civilizations close enough to each other
to actually communicate within their lifetimes their respective lifetimes and
it turns out one of the critical terms in that equation is how long intelligent
life persists how long intelligent civilizations persist do they destroy
themselves this is something that Carl Sagan other scientists like Frank Drake
at the time were very interested in and I think part of Sagan’s his efforts to
to evolve from a scientist and a science communicator to an ad
and he advocated against sort of you know the arms race back in the 1980s you
know as the US and Russia were both building their Arsenal’s so I think one
of the things that he recognized was you know this could be the explanation of
why we don’t if we haven’t heard from other intelligent civilizations the
universe may be teeming with them but if we all destroy ourselves over a time
frame as short as you know a few thousand years then that would explain
it potentially and so I think that that
it’s interesting the philosophical import of the Drake Equation in Fermi’s
paradox or if you like the grape filter actually had an impact on how scientists
like Carl Sagan saw their role in the public sphere is not just scientists not
just communicator but to try to use their knowledge and influence to do
everything they can to make sure that we don’t go down that path of destruction
and you know I think Carl Sagan would be horrified today at where we are that
we’ve elected a demagogue like Donald Trump to be the president the what is
currently you know arguably the most powerful country in the world how
dangerous that is how close we’ve come even if we escape this one we never
should have come so close that alone deeply chills me it disturbs me it says
that maybe maybe it’s inevitable maybe that is our destiny maybe that is
the explanation to the Fermi paradox but God I’ll do everything that I can in in
my life and with whatever influence I have to try to make sure that that isn’t
our legacy and that’s part of why I fight so hard to advocate for a an
honest discourse over climate change and what to do about it
it’s not what I signed up for when I you know double major in applied math and
physics and graduate school and little did I realize that I would be you know
ultimately certain myself into the very center of a
fractious societal debate but that’s where I found myself and I’ve embraced
that role I just want to say first of all you can’t take all the credit with
Trump for you know and being the answer to Fermi’s paradox because Australia’s
shit Factory has contributed greatly to this I mean we have also sabotaged
these climate talks the whole Kyoto Protocol’s sorry the Kyoto Protocol that
the credits that we tried to that we’ve negotiated at that conference that we
refused to sign on to yep now we’re trying to sabotage it again by trying to
claim these phony carbon credits and the shit factory you know yeah we’ve we’ve
played a big role in that so please I’m sorry in the end of the
species efforts – you’re absolutely right was unfair of me to not recognize
the very global contribution that Australian government has made to this
effort – shit f-word the entire planet yes Oh
indeed it’s a group effort you know yeah and you know a small number of state
actors essentially are sabotaging efforts by the rest of the the world to
do something about this and in other environmental problems and look um I
love will we’re going to end it here because I know you’re a you’re you’re a
busy man and climate scientists and you’ve got a lot of important work to do
but I I just want to make the point that’s really good to end on this big
picture mode because it reminds us how much is at stake this is one of the sort
of the problems B with this is kind of you know Homo sapiens as greatest
challenge and the Henry’s parabola bottom yeah yeah and it’s sobering to
think that other species intelligent species around the universe have
probably gone through a similar process of dealing with the same development in
terms of technological development and are in having to deal with stupid
bullshit conspiracies and arguments that eventually lead to the extinguishment of
that whole experiment on that planet bye-bye you know whatever happened on
the in that galaxy but now it’s our turn and can we pass there’s that you’re
right there’s a probably a planet where instead of an orange Trump they’ve got a
green a green Trump right but it’s otherwise very similar yeah
you know that is why I’m speaking about it for a little while but I’m really
hoping that this year we’re gonna start a little spin-off of the honest
government ad series I thinking of calling it the department of climate
should fuckery so there we absolutely focus on this on this issue and give it
the attention that it requires so that we can really help climate scientists
get the word out so hopefully we’ll be doing that and I don’t know how be great
to have you on the show again but either way thank you so much for for your time
and everything you’ve contributed while you’re here Thank You Giordano’s very
much pleasure talking with you and I very much look forward to seeing to
seeing that happen and I’ll be happy to help out any way I can so best of luck
with that effort thank you one thing that I want to make a habit of
doing now when I speak to when I do these interviews I’m still burning and I
think but I’ve learnt us to ask people is this something particularly that you
want to get out like that you know that we didn’t that we didn’t cover I did
want to make one final point here and it’s an important one it’s a serious one
it’s time for the shit fuckery to stop I’m glad I’m glad we got that on record
yes I said I figured it was important to establish that once and for all and that brings us to the end of episode
9 of the juice media podcast which has been part two of our companion podcast
for our honest government ad about the fires there was just so much to say and
I think you’ll agree that splitting this up into two podcasts has allowed us to
really get into more depth in two separate but kindred conversations one
about the situation that we’re in from a scientific perspective and again a
reminder of how important it is to actually give the market to climate
scientists when having these conversations and the other podcast
episode 8 which if you haven’t listened to I really encourage you to go back and
check it out which focuses on the technological solutions at our disposal
right now to avoid this shitshow and potentially the great filter if there
was one thing I could ask you to do if you enjoyed this podcast and found it
useful please recommend it to your friends and family so we can get more
people to listen in to the voices that need to be heard as we get deeper and
deeper into the climate emergency if you absolutely love their work and one is
supported of course you can do so head to forward slash the juice
media and sign up a huge shout out and thanks to all our patrons who make it
possible to make this podcast and our honest government ads this is giordano
you’ve been listening to the juice media podcast we’ll catch you very soon for
our next honest government ad take care

100 thoughts on “The Fires | Juice Media Podcast 9: feat. Prof Michael E Mann

  • thejuicemedia Post author

    I know everyone's an expert about climate change here on the internet. But I thought maybe, just maybe, it might be good to listen to an actual climate scientist. So I am honoured to have as my guest for Episode 9 of the podcast not just any scientist, but one of the most renowned climate scientists in the world – Michael E. Mann, author of the famous hockey stick graph. Because of his central role in establishing the reality of anthropogenic climate change, Mann has also become a lighting rod for climate deniers, who have tried to discredit him in order to cast doubt over the science. (That's why I've included some links in the video description which set the record straight on the bullshit claims). But I didn't want this conversation to be stuck in the narrative of denial, as it often is. So, for much of the podcast, we put that shit aside and talk about the actual science – creating a space where we can actually move the conversation forward. And oh my god, I don't know about you, but it is so good to be able to do so. I hope you enjoy listening to this podcast as much as I enjoyed recording it, and I thank Michael Mann for giving us some of his time.

    Catch you soon for our next Honest Government Ad!


  • Scar Post author

    Really enjoying the Juice Media podcasts! Fantastic 😍

  • Stable Genius Post author

    Subscribed. Great idea putting the Podcast on YouTube.
    I laughed my arse off at the end, well done

  • Gryff Longprong Post author

    I watched a Sixty Minutes programme that had Prof Mann and Barnaby Joyce.
    When man spoke it look like Joyce was gonna explode and you could see the absolute contempt he had for the Prof.

  • Des McGeough Post author

    I subbed for the pretty girls on here. I'm leaving due to this bullshit doom and gloom anthropomorphic climate change "debate". The fires were started by ARSON mostly. I've been waiting for the world to end for 40 years now. Total snake oil this guy is pushing. No one is afraid of Murdoch media lol. No climate scientists that disagree with the "consensus" ever get air time. Bye bye. If you all are so concerned with evil carbon move to nuclear. There I solved it!

  • Jusfeet Post author

    This has been really wonderful to listen to. Looking forward to the new climate focused series. It’s a really important thing you’re doing, it’s unfortunate that you have to do it but still great work.

  • Krzysztof Bobkowski Post author

    The ignorance of climate change deniers, at this point, is beyond belief. Just reading few of the comments below make you wanna slit your wrists. It’s clear that most of them (if any) didn’t even bother to listen to this podcast, but (of course) they’re first to comment, spewing some random words, like “volcanos”, “ozone layer” or “solar cycles”, without even spending two minutes on educating themselves on the topic. Yet, they claim that they know what’s going on, but working scientist … you know, an expert in the field, miraculously, doesn’t! Please, do all of us a massive favour, and stay true to your beliefs, so next time when your car breaks down, take it to your local butcher and if you get sick, visit your car mechanic. I mean, obviously those experts know nothing about their profession, and all they want to do is to rip you off. Might as well save a buck. Right?

  • Tim Bradley Post author

    I love that you raised the Great Filter, Fermi's Paradox, and the Drake Equation: ♥️♥️♥️

    I think it adds an interesting angle that both brings home what is at stake, and encourages people to think scientifically about the big picture generally.

  • Steve Gee Post author

    Hi @thejuicemedia. Did you notice That here in the North Island of NZ that our record drought has just been broken (by some feeble rain) – while the South Island recovers from terrible flooding?

  • Europaii ॐ Post author

    I love all the work you guys do but please bring back rap news!

  • RootBeerKing Post author

  • No1 Cares Ramirez Post author

    He had me until 5:57. Unsub jkbutfukthisguy,goodwatchthow.

  • KingKeeper99 Post author

    Thanks for these podcasts! We're seeing the problems of climate change here in South America in an extremely preoccupying way!
    Here in the Colombian Andean region the climate last few months was going from -4.5 degrees Celsius at 4am to 25 degrees at 2pm.
    The normal is 3/6 degrees at morning and 16 the rest of the day…

    Trees, grass and crops are ice-frozen in the morning and then in the afternoon they are completely dry and susceptible to fires, the crops are ruining because of the sudden temperature change and we are having millionaire loses!

    These extreme climates aren't normal, we're supposed to be near the Ecuador and oir temperature was normally perfectlt template, but it seems like humidity from the Amazon wasn't reaching out to the Andean mountains normally, making us go in drought, and when they finally get up, we suffer from large floodings.

    Thankfully our government hasn't yet been represented by those who deny climate change, nor there's people who "don't believe in it" in our political stage and many actions have been made to prevent further damage on the environment, but these are still realoy difficult to fully enforce, and usually most of the promises from those we elect for presidents are never accomplished…

  • Ernest Of Gaia Post author

    Michael Mann is one of the few that really get it

  • Ernest Of Gaia Post author

    Do you sell ur book for bitcoin?

  • Yazid Abdullah Post author

    I take home $1460 a fourth night which what I live on for a month and the the half pay mortgage $1500 and I gave away $500 dollars towards bushfire appeal only to know that non of the poor people have to receive I’m so sad that my humble donation have gone into a out of mind spiral spin into an greedy abyss wtf I feel jilted

  • Ernest Of Gaia Post author

    Learning to grow food is the quickest way to become a scientist. #Permaculture Design Science, permaculture institute of Australia

  • VeNoM Post author

    Who do you believe? I have heard many other people talk about they're being arsonist.

  • Roy Langston Post author

    Michael Mann is an anti-fossil-fuel hysteria propagandist, hoaxer and fraud, not a scientist. His hockey stick graph was one of the most dishonest pieces of work ever published: it completely erased the Medieval Warm Period and the Little Ice Age by cherry picking and falsifying data. He explicitly admitted that he is a lying fraud when he refused to release his data to support his own lawsuit.

  • s s Post author


  • nik lee Post author

    so how would i know ? i dont , but depending which way you swing your thoughts or what you watch, as in whos channel, ' icke?' on climate the "the climate hoax?" he puts forward an argument worth listening to , as i said god knows, i dont , some say the BOM has altered previous records, whos =behind it all pushing for what , .

  • -][][- Post author

    This site has run out of meaningful topics and now simply is pandering to popular topics. How about breaking this topic down and giving it the critical analysis treatment instead of letting emotion discern truth

  • Grabit Hard Post author

    When i grow up I want to be a climate scientist.

  • LOCK TO THE BLOCK Post author

    Unprecedented government mismanagement ie. deforestation … don’t worry we will give some guys at the UN Trillion and they will come up with something one day… dumb dumb dumb dumb!

  • Nick Heath Post author

    But he won't debate other scientists. If he doesn't debate then he has no legitimacy. When you call people FWitts then you are denying and using propaganda to shut down conversation. The real studies dispute the narrative you are spreading.

  • Bro T Post author

    Counter intelligence in play with climate change and other issues

  • rocket man Post author

    A leading scientist from the agenda!

  • Pam Bennett Post author

    I heard the fires were started by people trying to prove climate change. And climate change is only part of the earth being destroyed by habitat destruction fracking and strip mining . It’s about all of it. Let’s not just focus on climate

  • Vincent Pendragon Post author

    This is bullshit. He said unprecedented fires, but also said it was lightning strikes. So who caused the lightning strikes. Geoengineering, who gives a f#[email protected] about his degree. What about fake snow in the U.S? They part of climate change too? This channel has lost his truth cause…time to boycott. So you preempt trolling, of course you'll get trolled. It's called free speech….because people are doing their own research. Of course the crime minister was stated by Mann he did everything he can…more bull shit

  • Vincent Pendragon Post author

    So you believe Greta? Another fascist propaganda plot…I rest my case

  • Julian Warmington Post author

    9:48 JMP: "You told me you're literally here on sabbatical to study the effects of climate change and then as if on queue the whole fucking country bursts into fire. Are you integrating this into your work, are updating your understanding of the effects of climate change? Or is this exactly what everyone expected in the climate science community?"
    MM: "No. It's what we predicted but not what we expected. [*chuckles*] Which is to say that decades ago we said this sort of stuff will happen if we don't act, and of course we've failed to act in a meaningful way, and we're seeing it play out. Now, this can't help but influence me in my speaking and my writing, I've written quite [a lot] about this, what's unfolding in Australia not just on the impacts of climate change, but on the denialism from the government, and the roll of the Murdoch media that has polluted not just our atmosphere by denying climate change, but has polluted the public discourse over climate in this country and elsewhere around the world…"

  • JASE THE ACE Post author

    Two things happen in Nevada today Tyson Fury whipped Wilder by a massive and totally predictable landslide …. and Sanders just whipped Trump by a far far even bigger landslide, its just that the the score cards are read out in November – Americans have had enough, a complete Sanders landslide, get use it, suck it up! You heard it here first, USA is the new Denmark and about time

  • Marc Gak Post author

    Really enjoyed this podcast as i did the first one you put up..Keep it going guys…smash the deniers

  • Nick Heath Post author

    The propaganda I'm hearing

  • Nick Heath Post author

    When this comes to a head I hope your agreements stand up it could be nasty apparently you like to call denies FWitts

  • H2 Rider Post author

  • H2 Rider Post author

    CO2 linked to temperature

  • H2 Rider Post author

  • Nick Heath Post author

    So juice media your communist

  • Nick Heath Post author

    Funding please advise

  • Nick Heath Post author

    Let's be transparent not trans sexual

  • H2 Rider Post author

  • H2 Rider Post author

  • Dirk Kelly Post author

    This was fantastic, so great to hear Michael E Mann given the opportunity to discuss the crisis on a platform where he doesn’t spend most of the time debating debunked arguments.

    Excited for the Department of Climate Shitfuckery focus in 2020.

    Great work Giordano and the team, and thanks for this new video based format!

  • Christian Deininger Post author

    I love honesty

  • IDIOT BOX Post author

    We’ve shared your content with Erik Pihl

  • Pseudonym Post author

    Were there really arsonists?

  • Agent Smith Post author

    Hey Juice Media. Is that chick your wife in the videos?

  • Mark B Post author

    Hey Giordano, thanks so much for doing this ! After fighting this battle for ten years now I feel burned out some days. It has really lifted my spirits to hear Michael Mann and Simon HaC talk about the positive things we can do. I have enrolled in the edX course and look forward to learning more about climate change. At least now I'll be a well-informed "inner city raving lunatic" 😉

  • Drawn Post author

    I love your effective use of expletives and prejoritives. I would let my kids learn how to use them from you guys. Australians seem really good at it, like Ozzyman on here.
    Oh, and great work too. x

  • Martin Andersen Post author

    I see a few copy-paste shills here, no doubt trolling everywhere he goes. I don’t really want to waste too much time on trolls, I’m not paid like them to comment.

    Anyone who lives here has experienced the unprecedented conditions, the warmest year on record, the fire season starting earlier than ever in last September, the fires exploding like never before, in forests that have never burned before. 18 MILLION hectares went up in flames. That’s greater than the size of England and Wales COMBINED at 15 Million hectares. In NSW alone 5.6 MILLION hectares burnt. That’s greater than the size of the country of Denmark at 4.3 million hectares. Over a BILLION animals burnt. A BILLION. 

    There is no point going over it all, it is well documented, and it is exactly experts like Michael Mann we need to listen to and heed their warning, not paid shills and Murdoch trolls like yourself. Even JP Morgan, who has bankrolled a lot of the shitfuckery, now realise it and warns the climate crisis is a threat to our planet and our species’ survival. They’re not known for their environmentalism or activism.

    I’ve seen a concerted effort by the Murdoch press and the political right to blame the fires here in Australia on armies of arsonists. But of more than a thousand fires, there are only a handful of arson or suspected arson incidents, and always near cities and towns. In NSW, 24 people have been arrested since the beginning of 2019 (from January; the fires started in September), not the 180-200 claimed by Murdoch media, and none bushfires.

    And that’s ignoring the fact that it’s the steadily worsening conditions over recent decades that has resulted in the current disastrous conditions that has seen the fires explode the way they have, with unprecedented dry conditions combining with unprecedented heat, to make firestorms with their own weather systems, creating fire tornadoes and dry lightning ahead of the fire creating new fires, with ember attacks driving horizontally across the ground for long distances, jumping any and all barriers, including rivers. One fire tornado flipped a 10-ton fire truck and dumped it like a toy, killing a firefighter. In the recent heatwave, where the continent broke all heat records, the outer Sydney suburb of Penrith reached 48.9 degrees C, at that point in time the hottest place on Earth not on fire. This is not normal. It may well become our new normal if we continue to do nothing, or not enough, in the next few decades. 

    We were warned, going back decades, but oil interests, who also saw it coming, got together and started a concerted disinformation campaign using hundreds of millions of dollars. Look up the Exxon Letters and what they knew way bay in 1977. Look at any Murdoch paper. Then don’t pick up or buy another Murdoch paper ever again, and don’t subscribe to their poisonous cable TV, be it Fox or Sky.

    Whether or not 2019 was the hottest on record, whether or not it was the driest on record in Australia, the fact is, climate change is a reality, it is here and beyond dispute, save for the vested interests spreading FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) through paid trolls and astroturfing campaigns. It is observed by thousands of scientists across the globe in numerous disciplines, from climatology, hydrology, oceanography, meteorology, biology, you name it: Glaciologists who have been studying and observing glaciers, the massive rivers of ice that take hundreds of years from start to finish, with some glacial ice being tens of thousands of years old, and all of them are retreating, melting at an ever-increasing rate. In Iceland, the Okjokull glacier was declared extinct in 2014, as the ice was no longer thick enough to move, and all of the island’s glaciers are expected to be gone within the next 200 years. Other glaciers in Europe have retreated up to 2km, and the Swizz Pizol glazier declared extinct last year, having lost 80% of it’s ice since 2006. The massive valleys once filled with ice, are now only covered in grass. The Alps are on track to be ice-free save for small patches by 2100. The polar ice sheets are melting and retreating, radar studies have shown alarming rates of melt in rivers under the ice, expanding at a far greater pace than expected. 

    This is observable scientific fact. This is climate change.

  • Perry Hart Post author

    LOL! Communist podcast!

  • Sheepyard opal Miners Post author

    Lol your not convincing it’s the Grand Solar Minimum not man made climate change you shill

  • Denis Morin Post author

    You all should listen to Dr.Tim Ball

  • Kaela Street Post author

    Forgive my spelling please, the Malchovitch Cycle shows the Earth regularly changes from extremely arid to snowball every ten thousand years or so. Yet the hockystick graph shows only the last few hundred years, is that not a blip on the geological clock?

  • Fukushima is Revelation Post author

    we told you so….
    Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
    9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

  • Murray Barnetson Post author

    I don't get how you guys are so good at commenting on the shitfuckery of various governments, yet fail to see that the climate hoax is part of the shitfuckery. Maurice Strong of the Club of Rome started the AGW concept in 1972. He hired Mann in 1998 to run off some graphs which became the "hockey stick" which has been debunked, including by people who got the same result putting telephone numbers into the model. AGW is shitfuckery at its worst as its primary purpose has nothing to do with saving the planet and everything to do with global control. Some reading material – , ,

  • Jerry Manzer Post author

    Thank You for the information…Shitfuckery is the right word.

  • Russ Hawkins Post author

    Sure the climate’s changed and got warmer but apparently – according to certain sources – the Sun goes through its own cycles of heating up and cooling down, which affects the Earth’s climate. Consider the Viking colonies in Greenland from the 10th to 15th centuries. They had to be abandoned because of a “mini ice age” that set in… Or the unseasonably hot spell of a few hundred years ceased. The local Inuits, who had a diet based principally on seals, fish etc weathered this period unscathed; whilst the Vikings had to adapt to the point they were abandoning the practices that made them “Vikings”. Eventually the drop in temperatures meant abandoning the region…..

    We appear to be going through a hot spell due to the Sun heating up, and us also releasing massive amounts of carbon into the atmosphere in a glut. If we were to get wise as a species and regulate the amount of carbon going into the atmosphere humanity would be able to stave off ice ages. Think about that. And instead of being the greatest and most rapacious scourge this planet has ever seen (apart from asteroid /comet impacts (of which there have been 5 that wiped out virtually all life on the planet), with humanity having murdered 50% of the species in the last 40 years – we could go to being one of the greatest blessings, upon all life forms, this world has ever seen. However, due to the fiduciary nature of certain companies in the corporate sector and their “unswerving loyalty to the shareholders” (and their own fat bonus’s), this is very unlikely to play out whilst those corporations are pulling the strings of government and insisting on being able to murder the ecology of the planet in order to add another 0 to their paycheque.
    Truly: “It is the love of money that is the root of all evil.”
    “Quarterly capitalism“ is murdering the planet.
    It is ecologists, not businessman that should be in charge of governments – because ecologists would look after the well-being of the entire planet, which looks after the well-being of all of humanity, and most importantly LONG TERM SURVIVABILITY. Businesses would still be able to continue but the most ecologically benevolent/benign options could be chosen which leaves the world in a far better way than when we found it.
    For example: taking an open cast mine and from the outset mining in such a way as to leave a landscaped area, beautiful, with a developed infrastructure (roads from the mine et cetera) already in place, and then dwellings built around it and on islands after flooding the mine through diverting a river or several streams etc, with communities being put in there so that the site may be sold on as real estate development, or tourist destination….. All it takes is more imagination – and fewer psychopaths, sociopaths and narcissists with stunted, incomplete insights from stealing the ideas from the Creatives (which from personal experience can happen all too easily and often).

  • Gerard Vaughan Post author

    The fires were caused by Muslims flying hijacked airliners, of course. All trace of the planes was evaporated by the fires, and although passports were naturally found, they were eaten by an FBI drug sniffing dog.
    Really ! How many times do us honest Government officials have to repeat our..
    Now let's move on..

  • TruthMyster Post author

    Michael E. Mann is an atmospheric science professor at Penn State University, a climate catastrophe advocate, and a militant campaigner against scientists who disagree with him. He is most famous as the creator of the discredited and controversial “hockey stick graph,” which has been discredited by statisticians for distorting past climate history and offering outlandish predictions of future carbon-dioxide-induced global warming.

    Mann is the author of the books Dire predictions: understanding global warming (2008) and The Hockey Stick and the Climate Wars: Dispatches from the Front Lines (2012), which have been described as self-aggrandizing scare tomes. He is a member of the Council of Advisers of the Climate Accountability Institute, which held the Planning Workshop that guided the state attorneys general “AGs United for Clean Power” to prosecute climate skeptics.

    Mann is also a direct collaborator with the RICO20 professors, who along with U.S. Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-RI), have called for prosecution of all climate skeptics. Mann’s arrogant, intolerant and vengeful attitudes — as reflected in his writings and even his Twitter feed — have caused even colleagues to be wary of him, and spurred the targets of his attacks to redouble their efforts. In a June 2016 speech, Mann tried to convince the Democratic Party Platform drafting committee that Democrats must act urgently to enforce his alarmist agenda before the “right wing denial machine” distorts his message.

    Source (and much more) …

  • TruthMyster Post author

    Juice media becoming UN propaganda tool … how SAD !

  • 宮下正浩 Post author

    They are carefully trying not to user the words " global warming " anymore.

  • Don Davideo Post author

    He is a fraud

  • Ro nald Post author

    Is it an exaggeration to propose R Murdoch an enemy of humanity ?

  • Sabby D Post author

    Great that you have the podcast here. I skimmed thru it, hope I find time to watch it properly, left you a like

  • ralph salotto Post author


  • GFG Post author

  • Gerard Vaughan Post author

    Maybe Fermi forgot that interstellar travel is still Sci-fi for us mere mortals. Or he assumed that we are the minority, a backward race that hasn't yet invented reactionless propulsion.

  • Kieron Bilton Post author

    Hey Mate keep it balanced interview Tony Heller as well. He's already brought Michael Mann's opinions to task. Look forward to your openess. True Science is never settled it is always to be challenged. Challenge yourself and interview an opposing opinion

  • Kieron Bilton Post author

    3 Royal commisions 1st 1939 solution then if done always minimum damage. Winter back burns help this. 1 dude did back burn his property saved his house cost $100,000 fine by stupid government

  • Kieron Bilton Post author
    Tony Heller has offered to debate Michael Mann who won't engage why now thats a real question

  • Kieron Bilton Post author

    Al Gore worth $2Million as Vice President grew to $200Million as face for Global Warming (which has been disproved as Earth was cooling those 18Years research Lord Monkton on this). Carbon Credits will make Gore a $Billionaire this alone reaks of Elitists taking advantage of Mass Fear possibly even creating It !!! Bahahaha Climate Modelling. Earth warming thanks to NASA NOAA Data manipulation. Wheres 1934 record heat pattern that shaft all those "Pretty Graphs" on show

  • Kieron Bilton Post author

    How dare debate something to help get to the truth. Fear of debate is concerning you might get to the Truth. How Dare You

  • Debra Legorreta Post author

    Before we screw up the world, the burden must be placed on the polluters that they are NOT driving the climate catastrophe. It's lame that the burden is placed on those who hold that the climate catastrophe is caused by humans, mostly American corporations.

  • Skeptic Musings Post author

    In the bible, there's a reason Jesus turned over the tables of the men collecting money in the courtyard. Greed is ugly.

  • SpikeyMetalHead88 Post author

    You should post up the first (7?) podcasts here aswell

  • Kieron Bilton Post author
    Interesting facts here to ask Michael Mann about please

  • Koen Horemans Post author

    Really ??? The hockey stick man ? Please learn something about CO2. The hockey stick has been condemned in court !

  • Steph Soltesz Post author

    I would REALLY LOVE TO SEE a Canadian Edition – maybe a US edition too, to embarrass, humiliates the hypocrites & shyte shovers and put them in their place too.

  • Namaste1001 Post author

    If you want to be objective you need to at east be willing to look at info that lies beyond your current understanding or you may be guilty of conformation bias. Interviewing Michael Mann, who is pushing a political agenda based on manipulated data is not objective.

  • Eric Neusen Post author

    Glad i could bring Mr Mann and Juice together (i think?). What a fact filled informative podcast this is. Thanks to all for your efforts.

  • Etienne Post author

    Just thank you for doing the job that public media, gov and education should do… It's seriously fucked up, but necessary. Keep going.

  • larrabeearms Post author

    Like most of what you put out except for your support of the global warming agenda. Global warming is not real the fires and storms are government made using energy weapons to start fires and cloud seeding technologies to cause and intensify storms. And cause drought to make make fires more intense.

  • MyBeatenHeart Post author

    unprecedented heat and unprecedented drought? that's not what i heard. just the opposite was the case, supposedly. have you guys been "correcting" past records again? what's going on?

  • Louise clifford Post author

    Just love the podcasts as well as honest government videos. I think they will have a big impact or I hope they will. Keep up the good work. Excellent.

  • Horsingabout Post author

    Your Narrative is up the put! Mann is not a man he is a fraud.

  • grzegorz wydra Post author

    weather modification is climat changing,geoingineering by monsanto david keith

  • Stephen Bedford Post author

    I think Prof. Mann should get the Nobel Peace Prize for his work in highlighting the reality of AGW and the need to get moving in dealing with it. Also, I subscribed because I just love the Juice Media.

  • tallon Post author

    Barnaby Joyce is best friends with Gina Rinehart australia's richest women That tells you all you need to know.

  • Mount Light Post author

    Nowhere does that smiling face appear in the video

  • bill shuey Post author

    We may have already found a solution to climate change, the covid-19. The virus is reducing pollution and may in fact reduce population.

  • Ned Kelly Post author

    So it's just a guess.
    They don't honestly know.


  • Daniel Birch Post author

    Gary Orsum has done some great videos on bringing some very interesting info on climate change to the forefront. I don't buy the idea these bushfires are global warming related and clearly so. The lack of burn offs wasn't really addressed, no small thing and no real evidence provided in this podcast. I'm open, but "the agenda" clearly wants climate change to be real *first red flag* and secondly I've seen more interesting points for the "it's not global warming" side. Would be nice if we could find a way to take money and bias out of the equation, get the scientists in a room together (the real ones, not the "I paid $50 for a certificate online ones they were encouraging") and get to the bottom of this. I feel like science doesn't matter anymore.

  • Paolo Girotto Post author

    While I appreciate the passion and the content , I personally find that swearing and ‘low’ language rows against you Giordano.
    While I understand it and enjoy it in some shape in the honest ads , in the podcast is really unnecessary and it detracts from the prestige that this content should have.
    Just my two cents.

  • Horsingabout Post author

    Yes Patrick resigned from the alarmist group so I guess his experience and science will also be denied by the warmists!

  • ash smitty Post author

    If I were evil, I’d invest in weather modification to defeat my enemies without anyone knowing any different.

    I’d build the worlds biggest and most powerful microwave oven machine and point it to the sky towards them. If people asked questions, I would tell them it’s just a monitoring station. Any deeper questions from people will be labeled as conspiracy nuts.

    I would heat up the ionosphere to millions of degrees to change the jet steam. I would use my weather modifying machines to create silent weapons against my enemies. Create droughts then floods and cyclones. 🤔

    I would use my technology to charge CB clouds and make it storm and hail hard on my enemies. I would heat up the air around a low pressure system to create damaging cyclones. I would then use my corrupted scientists and the propaganda machine that I control to point all direction away from me and blame it on the easiest targets. I would silence dissenting voices with wet works”. (AFP 7 dead committing suicide and all of it very suspect. Not a coincidence).

    If I have thought of this, then so has the evil government and then some.

    We don’t know what any secret black government agency and their secret weapons programs that are designed to destroy the planet are up to. So we can’t truly find out the real cause of this “climate change” can we?

    It’s not C02 that is behind this.

    Eventually what happens is someone will figure it out. Then they will push back with their own “more powerful” weather machines then before you know it, we have weather wars. Quiet weapons for silent wars.

    Governments have screwed the planet because they are fighting each other.

    So they blame the plebs instead and they will soak it up while they get richer and more powerful while taking away our rights out freedoms and our money.

  • warp00009 Post author

    And to think, most of the gutless cowards who are running our national government here in the states today are anti-reality, anti-science, climate change deniers – more interested in lining the pockets of their rich, mega-corporation invested friends than saving the planet. Not only have they not taken appropriate action, they've also intentionally persecuted and attempted to vilify legitimate environmental scientists – especially those studying climate change. My brother teaches Environmental Science at a major U.S. university and has seen this first hand, where climate scientists have periodically had to hide their data, to keep it safe and valid for future research once that can be funded and properly studied once again. I'm proud that my kids all seem to understand this issue – and the importance of it to the world – much better than most of our self serving, recent political leaders have thus far. We all need to get on with solving this mess – starting with voting these incompetent jerks out!

  • Rob Finch Post author

    Please invite Willy Soon in the interest of perspective, to also speak.

  • Andrew Foden Post author

    Have been utterly convinced that global warming is fact and it is our government that is the cause of the log jam stopping us trying our best to reverse the trend.

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